Old Salfordians Memorial

[oldsalfordian]

Dec 28, 2016 20:29:40 GMT shred said:

A little more on John Oldham.

Occupation: Foreman Builder
Birth: Melbourne, Australia
Attested 2/9/1914 (16th Manchesters) aged 22 years and 7 months.
Commissioned 30/10/17
Father: Charles Oldham, 55 Kearsley Road, Crumpsall
Married: Elsie Adelaide Norbury at St Matthews, Crumpsall (cannot find children)

Remembered on the St Matthews memorial link

1901 census - nephew of David Oldham, Stapleton St, Pendleton.
1911 census - a visitor, aged 19, at 2 Claremont Road, Pendleton.

I think this John Oldham is the best candidate by far for our J. Oldham. Once again, thanks for bringing him to my attention, and thanks also for unearthing the fascinating history of the family, which begs the question, why on earth did they leave a successful life in Perth, Australia, to come back to Blighty, and cloudy, smokey Salford in particular?

John seems to have been the third of four children. I haven't found the family's passages out and in, but I did find the father and his second wife taking a sea cruise in 1928 to Lisbon, Madeira & the Canary Islands - he certainly must have been worth a bob or two. (His first wife, John's mother, had died in 1924.) If father was a builder and son John a 22 year old foreman builder, it could only have been in his dad's business. You have just posted a clipping about Harold Fielding, another guy on our memorial, and you can see that our School provided him with the foundations of a career in building, which strengthens the case for this being our John.

This John Oldham was commissioned, and of the 66 men I have identified for sure, 17 were officers - a quarter - and another 14 were NCOs.

So, I think the breakdown of the 74 is now 66 identified for sure, plus 5 strong candidates (James, Oldham, Richards, H Smith and Wood), leaving 3 mysteries (Evans, Roberts & Shepherd).  I was still at the School when a fire destroyed all the pupil records.  They had been so comprehensive and complete that they were consulted and used by university academics undertaking research into various aspects of education.  I never dreamt then that over half a century later I would be cursing their loss.

Old Salfordian

[oldsalfordian]

Dec 28, 2016 13:45:03 GMT shred said:

A. Shepherd

A complete mystery. War memorials may be carved in stone and cast in bronze, but they were the work of Man, and they were as prone to error, omission, bias and misunderstanding as all his other works. Might the name A. Shepherd have been a misunderstanding and a mistaken duplication of Asa Sheppard on the Memorial?


Old Salfordian

The below image shows a boy named "Shepherd" (unfortunately no initial given) in form 1A, 1912/13. Would these boys be 10/11 years old and would they have been old enough to serve before the end of the war?

For a number of reasons I think the boys in the photo would be 12 rather than 10 or 11, which makes it just about possible they caught the end of the war.  Indeed, Shepherd is standing next to the youngest man, or rather boy, on our memorial, Harold Hanna, who was born in the spring of 1900 and was 18 when he went down with the "Leinster" a month before Armistice Day. (I've mentioned in previous posts that having a sister who was a teacher was almost a hallmark of the guys on our memorial - in Harold Hanna's case it was a brother, who for nearly 20 years attended morning assemblies in the School, standing in front of the memorial with Harold's name on it. It's also quite possible my great grandmother, who in 1900 was living next door to the Hannas, helped deliver Harold.) Unfortunately, the class photo hasn't led me to an A Shepherd.

(Clarkson, by the way, isn't the Clarkson on our memorial - he has been identified in previous posts as Ernest Clarkson, KIA 1 Nov 1914 in the south Pacific.)

Old Salfordian

[shred]

Dec 28, 2016 15:16:39 GMT shred said:

* A. Richards

I think this may well be 301582 Private Thomas Arthur Richards who was KIA on 26th April 1918 while serving with the Tank Corps. He was 19 and known as Arthur, according to the newspaper report of his death. He was born in 1899, the son of Edwin & Mary Richards, of 684, Bolton Road, and in the 1911 his father gave his occupation as master tailor. His sister was a student teacher – see my comments about James above. Again, this was just the kind of family that might send a boy to our School, and many of its pupils came from Pendlebury, Swinton & Worsley. Also, he attended Salford Royal Technical Institute in 1914/15, so it is entirely possible that he arrived at the RTI having “crossed the corridor” from our School, which shared the same building and much else besides with the RTI. The School prepared appropriate boys for further studies at its sister institute, and in 1910 it was said that half the students at the RTI had been through our School. The School and the RTI were commonly confused and each was sometimes referred to as the Technical School, so a careless reference to the RTI might in fact be a reference to our School, and vice versa. Arthur is also remembered on the family gravestone in Swinton Cemetery.

There was a report published in the Salford Reporter on the 15/09/1919. I will get a copy in the New Year.

This article was actually from the Eccles Journal, not the Salford Reporter as I had previously thought.

[shred]

Dec 28, 2016 13:37:12 GMT shred said:

Old Salfordian,

Many thanks for the update. I will take a look at the names left and see if we are able to identify any of the remaining names over the next few weeks.

E. Roberts

I’m clutching at straws here. A Corporal Ernest Roberts was KIA on 2nd May 1915 serving with the 1st Battalion of the King’s Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment), and a military record says he was born in Salford. However there is nothing I can see to link him or any other E. Roberts to our School.

There was an article printed in the Salford Reporter on the 05/06/1915. I will try and get to the library in the New Year and see if the article gives the definitive link.

Sorry to report that this doesn't look like the correct E Roberts.

[shred]

I think E Roberts may be.
EBENEZER ROBERTS
Rank:Lance Corporal
Service No:91484
Date of Death:18/11/1918
Age:26
Regiment/Service:Durham Light Infantry 1st/5th Bn.
Grave Reference: VI. J. 15.
Cemetery:NIEDERZWEHREN CEMETERY, KASSEL
Additional Information:Son of John and Esther Roberts, of 3, Oakley St., Weaste, Manchester.

1911 census:
Name: Ebenezer Roberts
Age in 1911: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bagillt, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Pendleton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 3 Oakley St Weaste
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Elementary School Teacher
Registration district: Salford
Household Members:
Name Age
John Roberts 55
Esther Roberts 53
William Richard Roberts 29
John Edwin Roberts 27
Esther Roberts 23
Mary Roberts 20
Ebenezer Roberts 18

His sister Mary was also a School Teacher.

Attestation form (17/11/1915) shows that he was originally allocated to the 20th Reserve Battalion of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Transferred to the DLI April 1918. Taken prisoner of war 27/05/1918, died of Pneumonia on 18/11/1918.

Home 17/11/1915 to 8/4/1918
France 9/4/1918 to 18/11/1918



He is remembered on the family headstone in Weaste Cemetery.

[oldsalfordian]

I’m receiving Christmas present after present from SWARM, and now here’s another one.

In 1893 the School Board for Salford established a Pupil Teachers’ Centre in an old building on George Street, which the following year moved to a new building on Victor Street, housing both the Pupil Teachers’ Centre and a new Central Scholarship Higher Grade School. When our School was founded in 1904, it took over both these functions, and for many years there was a distinct stream of pupil teachers within the School alongside the ordinary pupils. In their final year they spent six months still as pupils at the School and six months in Salford elementary schools, teaching. Some then slipped naturally into assistant teacher posts, while others headed off to teacher training colleges around the country. In 1911, 18 y.o. Ebenezer had probably started his career the previous summer. If he was teaching in Salford when he enlisted, he was wrongly omitted from the Corporation memorial; otherwise, he was presumably teaching outside the borough, perhaps in one of the communities to the west which are in Salford now but weren’t then.

Of the 66 on our memorial whom I had identified, no fewer than 14 were teachers, 9 of them in Salford, and Ebenezer Roberts seems very likely to be the 15th. Once again, many thanks.

The diagnosis of pneumonia was likely to have been Spanish Flu. Fry on our memorial was one of the tens of millions to succumb to it, in his case soon after the Armistice while still in service, rather like Ebenezer.

Old Salfordian

[oldsalfordian]

Jan 4, 2017 21:23:23 GMT shred said:

Dec 28, 2016 13:37:12 GMT shred said:

Old Salfordian,

Many thanks for the update. I will take a look at the names left and see if we are able to identify any of the remaining names over the next few weeks.

There was an article printed in the Salford Reporter on the 05/06/1915. I will try and get to the library in the New Year and see if the article gives the definitive link.

I'm not familiar with the article you refer to, but a fortnight earlier in the same paper there was a Roll of Honour of former pupils serving in the armed forces. Of the 134, one was already dead and 29 more would die. By 17 July the Roll was said to be 143 and "by no means complete," and I'm sure that was the case.

Old Salfordian

[oldsalfordian]

Jan 4, 2017 18:27:50 GMT oldsalfordian said:

Dec 28, 2016 13:45:03 GMT shred said:

The below image shows a boy named "Shepherd" (unfortunately no initial given) in form 1A, 1912/13. Would these boys be 10/11 years old and would they have been old enough to serve before the end of the war?

For a number of reasons I think the boys in the photo would be 12 rather than 10 or 11, which makes it just about possible they caught the end of the war.  Indeed, Shepherd is standing next to the youngest man, or rather boy, on our memorial, Harold Hanna, who was born in the spring of 1900 and was 18 when he went down with the "Leinster" a month before Armistice Day. Unfortunately, the class photo hasn't led me to an A Shepherd.

Old Salfordian

(I've abridged above a recent post with an image in it.)

Still looking for our A. Shepherd, I see in the Weaste Cemetery Great War Casualties Database there is a Charles A Shepherd, who died on 29th July 1916, aged 18. However, there is no match on the CWGC website, which is odd. There isn't an obvious candidate in the 1901 & 1911 censuses either, and Free BMD isn't much help.

(If Charles Alexander Shepherd's dad, who was a librarian & curator with Birkenhead Corporation in 1911, moved to Salford in time for the lad to spend a year or two at our School, it could just be him.  I suspect not, however, because these Shepherds were in Birkenhead in the 1939 Register, albeit listed as "Shepard".) 

Do we know anything about this guy, who is presumably on a family gravestone in Weaste?

Old Salfordian

[shred]

I have not seen the grave of Charles A Shepherd at Weaste Cemetery. I cannot find a death in 1916 that looks anywhere near.

I will try and visit the cemetery this week and get a photo.

[shred]

Still looking for our A. Shepherd, I see in the Weaste Cemetery Great War Casualties Database there is a Charles A Shepherd, who died on 29th July 1916, aged 18. However, there is no match on the CWGC website, which is odd. There isn't an obvious candidate in the 1901 & 1911 censuses either, and Free BMD isn't much help.

(If Charles Alexander Shepherd's dad, who was a librarian & curator with Birkenhead Corporation in 1911, moved to Salford in time for the lad to spend a year or two at our School, it could just be him.  I suspect not, however, because these Shepherds were in Birkenhead in the 1939 Register, albeit listed as "Shepard".) 

Do we know anything about this guy, who is presumably on a family gravestone in Weaste?

Old Salfordian

The Weaste Great War Casualties database has incorrectly named this man as Charles A Shepherd. He is actually:
Charles Arthur Weilding
Father: Charles Shepherd Weilding
CWGC:
C WEILDING
Rank:Private
Service No:7336
Date of Death:29/07/1916
Regiment/Service:Manchester Regiment 16th Bn.
Grave Reference: III. H. 19.
Cemetery:PERONNE ROAD CEMETERY, MARICOURT

[fusilier]

Does anyone know what happened to the ww1 war memorial on the wall in Clewes Street Baracks, home of the 8th Bn. Lancashire Fusiliers? And is there a photo of it. I would like to add it to my unpublished "History of the Salford Fusiliers".

[oldsalfordian]

Apr 18, 2011 19:08:46 GMT stecheet said:

Old Salfordians Memorial

A Daber Alfred born Salford resident Salford Private Manchester Regiment 1/6th Battalion 2287 died 5/6/1915
CWG Panel 158 to 170 Helles Memorial
born 1898 Salford

I have overlooked reporting that the University of Salford in the middle of the decade extended its residential facilities on campus. The first of two phases of new student accommodation, known collectively as the Peel Park Quarter, opened in January 2016. Each of the seven blocks therein was given a name linked to Salford, its community, history, distinctiveness and ethos, including L.S. Lowry, Emmeline Pankhurst and Shelagh Delaney. One of them, Daber, is named after 18-year-old Alfred Daber, killed on 5th June 1915 in the Dardanelles Campaign. After leaving Salford Grammar School he continued his studies at the Royal Technical Institute, which eventually evolved into the University. The Old Salfordians' memorial plaque now hangs in the University's Peel Building, which the School shared with the RTI in the days when all the men named on it were pupils.
(Another block has been named after another soldier, Billy Unsworth, but I'm not in a position to identify him as I can Alfred.)
Old Salfordian

[oldsalfordian]

Apr 18, 2011 19:40:12 GMT stecheet said:

Old Salfordians Memorial

C Hollinshead Charles Private Royal Marines RM Medical Unit died 26/1/1918
CWG Age 26 son of Mr and Mrs J Hollinshead of Swinton
111.G.17 Abbeville Communal Cemetery Extension

T Hollinshead Thomas born Swinton resident Swinton Private Royal Army Medical Corp 105498 died 1/10/1917 in Italy
CWG Age 22 Son of Charles and Ellen Hollinshead of 341 Moorside Rd Swinton
2.H.8 Ravenna War Cemetery

Charles Hollinshead & Thomas Hollinshead were cousins – their fathers were brothers. Charles’s name is on the memorial plaque in the Chapel of Chester University, where he trained to be a teacher. Insofar as Thomas was a railway clerk, I think it’s a safe bet that he is the Pte. T. Hollinshead on the memorial plaque on Victoria Railway Station approach, which remembers employees of the Manchester, Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Company.
Old Salfordian

[oldsalfordian]

Apr 18, 2011 19:40:12 GMT stecheet said:

Old Salfordians Memorial

J Evans most likely John born Pendleton resident Pendleton L/Corporal Royal Fusiliers died 19/5/1918
CWG Age 19 son of William Charles and Susannah Evans of 27 Cook St Pendleton
1.H.13 Dernancourt Communal Cemetery Extension

Wendy

The formidably resourceful and productive Wendy first suggested this in 2011, and I too have been inclined to think that this John Evans is the J. Evans on the Old Salfordians’ war memorial. Eleven years on I have at last found a piece of evidence that satisfies me he is indeed our man. (A photo of the family headstone in Weaste was posted in the Weaste Cemetery section of this Forum and I have also attached a cross-reference note to that.)
Old Salfordian