Arthur Turner - East Lancs Regiment

[shred]

Whilst at the Salford History Library today I helped a lady find some information about her grandfather who died in Gallipoli. I promised her that I would put this on our forum.

He is:
Arthur Turner
Residence: Salford
Death Date: 29 Nov 1915
Death Location: Gallipoli
Enlistment Location: Manchester
Rank: Private
Regiment: East Lancashire Regiment
Battalion: 6th Battalion
Number: 18986
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: Balkan Theatre
Panel Reference: Panel 113 to 117.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

We managed to find the article below published on the 29th Jan 1916.




I had never heard of men dying of exposure in Gallipoli (probably a well known fact), so had a look for further information. I found the following information in a book about the East Lancashire Regiment and thought it may interest some of the members.

[hornbeam]

Hello, my name is Lorraine and I am that lady you helped yesterday with my grandfather Arthur Turner, and once again I would like to thank you so much for your help. I am trying to do my family tree, and although I do have a marriage certificate and his army number, I am not sure whether I have him linked to the right family on the census, do you know of anyone who would help me this this.

[shred]

Hi Lorraine,

Thanks for joining us. I am sure that a few of our members can help, please post as much information as possible with regards to Arthur i.e. date of marriage (is his father's name given on the certificate?), maiden name of his wife etc...

P.S. thanks for the diet coke.

[Hawker Hurricane]

Hi Lorraine and welcome. As Garry said, post what info you have, and between us all we'll try to find some answers to help you along on your family history journey.

Sent from my LT15i using ProBoards

[Spitfire]

I love doing family trees I'll help all I can

[hornbeam]

I will shortly get round to asking for help with my family tree, but first there is something you could help me with, My grandfather, Arthur Turner, is remembered in the Helle's Monument in Turkey as this is where he fought and I thought had died there, but according to the article in the Salford Reporter he died in hospital in Malta, does this mean there will be a grave there or some other monument or would they have shipped his body back to Turkey, also the article said that he was remembered in the roll of honour at St Thomas's, pendleton, but I have looked on the computer, have seen the roll of honour but I can't find his name, any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Hornbeam (Lorraine)

[shred]

Lorraine, I can guess at a few reasons to answer both questions, but that is what they would be guesses. Maybe the news article is incorrect (it is a little odd that the article states "official intimation received on January 10 states that he died from exposure on November 29, as follows -", the article then quotes a letter from Arthur not the "official intimation".

Let's wait till a few of our forum members have had time to ponder on this before we try to dig deeper.

I will make enquiries into whether St Thomas' hold a Roll of Honour that has Arthur's name on it, for one reason or another he may have been missed when the memorial was commissioned.

[Deleted]

Hi & welcome Lorraine.
I can't help with your question on the Malta hospital.
What i will do is try to kick start your family tree

Here is Arthur & family 1911

Click here for the family 1901

Click here for the family 1891

Also spotted this :
Name: Osman Turner
Regiment or Corps: Kings Royal Rifle Corps
Regimental Number: P/7794
There is a medal card for him but can't be 100% he is yours?

Now the bit that puzzles me about Arthur Turners?
Ancestry - CWGC & the local new paper have him dying 29 Nov 1915, yet he still appears on the 1918 Salford west absent voters register NO 8 Back John street ?

Marriages June 1/4 1868
Abbott Julia Ann Bradford Yorkshire 9b 147
TURNER John Thomas Bradford Yorkshire 9b 147

Deaths June 1/4 1898
Turner John Thomas 50 Salford 28

Ok that gives you something to play with and others the chance to find more for you?

Ben

[Deleted]

Arthur's brother Fred Turner married Jane Ellen Waring June 1/4 1904 at St Barnabas, Salford.

This is who i think fread is 1911 with his family

Ben

[Deleted]

I suspect that some of the Turner family moved out of the Salford area and moved a little up the road to Bury, some time between 1911 & 1923 ?

Found Julia A Turner death.
Died age 81, Dec 1/4 1930 Bury.

Osman married Betsy Allen.
June 1/4 1923 Bury.

Osman died age 70.
Dec 1/4 1958 Heywood ( Heywood & Bury are the same register district back then).

Ben

[hornbeam]

Hello Ben, thank you for your info on Arthur Turner, but I don't think he is my granddad, I will try to explain why. originally I did not know Arthur's age, and when I looked on the 1981 census, there was 5 Arthur Turner's in Pendleton/Salford all around the same age give or take a year or two. Then I found his marriage to Margaret Cowie, so I sent for a copy of the marriage cert and this shown his age as 27 on the 3/9/11 his wedding day, Name of Father John Thomas Turner (deceased), so this made him born around 1884, and when he died in 1915 it says he was 30, linking his birthdate as 1884, I then looked for marrages for a John Thomas turner and found one that was married to an Elizabeth Howard, so I looked for a birth for Arthur and found one with a mother called Elizabeth, so I sent for a copy of his birth certificate which shows father as John and mother as Elizabeth. My sister who is older than me but lives in Greece, told me one time that Arthurs mum came from Liverpool and this Elizabeth Howard was born in Birkenhead so i thought I must have his right family, and on the 1891 and 1901 census Arthur's age fits in with his birth and death age, so I think the Arthur you have come up with must be one of the other Arthur Turner's i originally found, all very confusing and annoying that i did'nt ask my grandma or my dad questions when they were alive. The only bit of information I do know is that my father (Arthur's son) had a cousin called Walter who funny enough had a brother called Osman. Walter was born round about 1911/1913 and died in 1980/1981 he was the window cleaner at UMP Venesta, Whit Lane, Salford uptil about five years beofre his death, i have tried looking for his family but to no avail. Hope this makes sense and any help would be appreciated. cheers, Lorraine

[nigelm]

Hi all - thanks for the interesting information on the Turner family. My grandfather was the Osman Turner being discussed above. For information, all Census returns show Julia Ann Turner as being born in Bradford - in fact she was born in Thorndon All Saints in Suffolk and died in Radcliffe in 1930. The name 'Osman', I understand became very popular in the late 1880s - the source of the popularity being a Turkish General, Osman Pasha whose military ventures in the Russian - Turkish wars inspired a great number of Brits. to name their next born infants after him. In case this 'Arthur Turner' turns out to be related, I do have a photograph of him with Osman. Good luck. NigelM

[shred]

Nigel,

Welcome to the forum.

I am sure that hornbeam would like to see the picture you have. You can email her by clicking on the "@" button just to the left of her post.

[hornbeam]

Hello Nigel, thank you for the info on Arthur Turner and Osman Turner, before I go any further could you please confirm that Osman did have a brother called Walter, and that they lived in the Whit Lane area of salford, so that I know that I might have the right family. Thank you, Hornbeam

[hornbeam]

Hi, any help from anyone on this subject would be appreciated. Whilst going through a box yesterday, I came across a world war 1 medal, gold in colour and not in a good condition but I could make out the following around the edge: - 307187 PTE S.Hemsley W.Rid.R, don't know who this belongs too, not a family member, but could have been a friend of my late grandfather -( Arthur Turner) it would be nice to pass back to the riginal family. Thank you, Hornbeam