mack
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 481
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Post by mack on Jan 2, 2011 15:03:43 GMT
does anyone know the history about this memorial,it only lists 4 men who died in WW1. it cant be the main memorial,does anyone know where the main memorial is
mack
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broomy
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 397
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Post by broomy on Jan 2, 2011 15:12:22 GMT
There was 38 killed in one of the wars-----------the site doesn't make it very clear which one. I met a friend that i'd not seen for 51 years thro' this site. Perhaps it can help.
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Post by shred on Jan 2, 2011 16:21:03 GMT
Mack,
Eccles Grammar had the first intake of pupils in 1911 (about 95 boys) aged around 12 years old. It would be 1917/1918 before the first boys would have been old enough to serve, hence all four men dying in 1918. I think this could bbe the reason there are not that man names inscribed.
I could be wrong though.
Garry
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mack
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 481
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Post by mack on Jan 2, 2011 20:14:19 GMT
thanks garry your answer has deepened the mystery,2/Lt bruce,heckford sellon died of wounds at the 23rd CCS on 16-8-17,after being shot by a sniper at glencorse wood,he was born on 23rd may 1885,educated at eccles grammar school
flight sub Lt petchell,burtt murray,born 27-7-1886,he was also educated at this school,he was killed in a flying accident in the war
2/Lt sellons brother,marmaduke was also killed in the war,its probable he also went to the school
mack
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broomy
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 397
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Post by broomy on Jan 2, 2011 20:18:59 GMT
''2/Lt bruce,heckford sellon died of wounds at the 23rd CCS on 16-8-17,after being shot by a sniper at glencorse wood,he was born on 23rd may 1885,educated at eccles grammar school'' How does that work then?
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Post by shred on Jan 2, 2011 20:38:36 GMT
thanks garry your answer has deepened the mystery,2/Lt bruce,heckford sellon died of wounds at the 23rd CCS on 16-8-17,after being shot by a sniper at glencorse wood,he was born on 23rd may 1885,educated at eccles grammar school flight sub Lt petchell,burtt murray,born 27-7-1886,he was also educated at this school,he was killed in a flying accident in the war 2/Lt sellons brother,marmaduke was also killed in the war,its probable he also went to the school mack Mack, It sure as deepened the mystery.... Bruce Heckford Sellon was 32 when he died in 1917 which means he would have been 26 when the school opened in 1911. I will see if I can find any further information.
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Post by Hawker Hurricane on Jan 2, 2011 20:56:32 GMT
The original Eccles Grammar School was founded in Wellington Road in 1873. This from information on the Peel Green Cemetery website:
"John Walmsley (1839 – 1921), founder of Eccles Grammar School.
John Walmsley was born on 24th May 1839 in Bradford, Yorkshire.
He graduated at London University and trained to be a Teacher in Bradford and at the Normal College, Cheltenham. His first appointment was Master of Mathematics at Dr. Bridgman's Army School, Woolwich.
He came to Eccles in 1869 to take a similar position at Clarendon Road School, which was a preparatory school to the public schools.
However in 1872 a number of Eccles residents prevailed on him to found a school to prepare boys for business life.
Thus Eccles Grammar School was established in January 1873 on Wellington Road and John Walmsley was to be its Head Master for 48 years.
In 1892, he acquired Clarendon Road School and the Grammar School moved into these premises.
John was a member of several mathematical and teaching associations and was the author of books on trigonometry, geometry, algebra and mechanics."
This would be the original school before the new school which opened in 1911 was built. Why this earlier history of the school is forgotten or ignored remains a mystery, as from the dates given it would appear that Mr. Walmsley would have been head of the new Grammar School for several years, which contradicts the history of the new school which states that Mr. T. I. Cowlishaw was the first head of that school.
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Post by shred on Jan 2, 2011 20:58:21 GMT
Mack, www.ecclesgrammar.co.uk/farewell.htm This is the source I got my date from. YetI have just found this - "John Walmsley (1839 – 1921), founder of Eccles Grammar School. John Walmsley was born on 24th May 1839 in Bradford, Yorkshire. He graduated at London University and trained to be a Teacher in Bradford and at the Normal College, Cheltenham. His first appointment was Master of Mathematics at Dr. Bridgman's Army School, Woolwich. He came to Eccles in 1869 to take a similar position at Clarendon Road School, which was a preparatory school to the public schools. However in 1872 a number of Eccles residents prevailed on him to found a school to prepare boys for business life. Thus Eccles Grammar School was established in January 1873 on Wellington Road and John Walmsley was to be its Head Master for 48 years. In 1892, he acquired Clarendon Road School and the Grammar School moved into these premises. John was a member of several mathematical and teaching associations and was the author of books on trigonometry, geometry, algebra and mechanics. He was interested in the public life of Eccles and became a member of the Eccles Local Board. He gave much attention to such issues of public health as sanitation, sewage disposal and smoke abatement. He was co-opted onto the Eccles Education Committee at its formation in 1903. He was also a church warden at Patricroft Parish Church. John Walmsley died on 9th July 1921 at his residence, Clarendon House, Eccles. He was 82 years old and left a widow Marian, five sons and four daughters. He was buried at Peel Green Cemetery on Tuesday 12th July. The service was conducted by Rev.H.N.Ross, Vicar of Eccles and Wing Commander the Rev.S.L.Clarke, MA BSc, an old boy of Eccles Grammar who came from Hulton, Bucks, especially for the occasion." Are these two different schools? The original Eccles Grammar opens in 1873. Eccles school opens in 1911 and becomes a Grammar school in 1960 (the original Grammar having since closed). *My head hurts* This all needs looking further into.
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Post by shred on Jan 2, 2011 20:59:56 GMT
Sorry Jim,
Our posts crossed. Same result.
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broomy
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 397
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Post by broomy on Jan 2, 2011 21:03:29 GMT
Right-----My mate Bill Blything left Broomhouse lane school in 1955/6 and went to Eccles Grammar school. Thats 4 years before 1960!------- --------i got no connection with this thread but i love mysteries.
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Post by Hawker Hurricane on Jan 2, 2011 21:13:36 GMT
From 1911 to 1944 it was Eccles Secondary School, becoming named Eccles Grammar School in 1944. The 'original' Eccles Grammar School founded in 1873 had I presume closed by this time, hence the name being reused. The World War I memorial referring to Eccles Grammar School must have been related to Mr. Walmsley's establishment?
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Post by shred on Jan 2, 2011 21:14:10 GMT
Broomy,
Just re-checking and the 1911 school changed to a Grammar in 1944, so Bill Blything would have been a Grammar School lad.
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Post by Hawker Hurricane on Jan 2, 2011 21:18:09 GMT
There was 38 killed in one of the wars-----------the site doesn't make it very clear which one. I met a friend that i'd not seen for 51 years thro' this site. Perhaps it can help. I have 39 names listed for the Eccles Grammar memorial for WWII. Given that the school changed from Eccles Secondary School to Eccles Grammar School in 1944, it would make sense for the WWII memorial to made in the school's new name. I also show only the four for World War I, which presumably refers to the old Grammar School of Mr. Walmsley, who it appears remained its head until his death in 1921. (EDIT - on further checking these must have been some of the earliest pupils of the Eccles Secondary School - apologies, I missed some info on the websites I was checking.) I have no connection with this thread either, Broomy, other than a desire to help out a fellow SWARMer, and a love of mysteries, too!
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Post by shred on Jan 2, 2011 21:22:43 GMT
Jim,
That then takes us back to Mack's original question. If the WW1 plaque is the old Grammar then why are names missing? I think the WW1 plaque would be from the new (1911) school.
Which begs the question - did the old Grammar have a memorial to their lads that died during WW1?
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Post by shred on Jan 2, 2011 21:23:54 GMT
Just seen your edit Jim.
I would agree.
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