George Rossell

[Deleted]

HI & welcome.

Could this be your George who died world war one?

George Rossell
Birth Place: Manchester
Death Date: 25 Sep 1915
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: Salford, Manchester
Rank: Private
Regiment: Shropshire Light Infantry
Battalion: 5th Battalion
Regimental Number: 20085
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Comments: Formerly 74980, R.F.A

Could you give details of when & where your grandfather died in 1992 please?
Who he married, where & when.

Ben

[gr8gr8granddaughter]

Hi thank you for replying and sorry if you get two. The internets playing up. This could well be him but I have since found about 5 other george Rossell s from similar areas. My uncle thought Shropshire was perhaps too far away but did Salford pals join this? My uncle said my great grandfather george herbert john Rossell died in the battle of sommes. But I have just found a photo of him and his wife. He 'died in 1915 in the battle loos' which is before. His mother died in 1915 as well and it says Dorset street Salford. He was 3 and was looked after by his uncle who used to travel around a lot.My grandpa had the same name as his dad and was born in 1912 and died in 1992 in greenwich. He also fought in dunkirk.
I think he ran away to Salford when he was about 21 and met my gran, Mary. I think her maiden name was farley and they were catholic.They had 2 boys. Anthony and Michael.I will get the dates from my uncle. Thank you again for your help.

[gr8gr8granddaughter]

Hello. I seem to be finding lots of Rossell's but often spelt rossall or russell in various censuses but i have no idea when my greatgrandfather was born.
George herbert john (jnr) married my gran, mary, in Holyrood Church in Barnsley. He(my uncle) said possibly in 1936 as he was born in 1938. My grandad worked for Mr George Glass who also encouraged him to join the TA before the 2nd ww when he went to Dunkirk. He said George Glass was a senior territorial officer. Grandpa also had a half sister Mary (English) who they lived round the corner from in Salford.

[shred]

Welcome to the forums.

I would say that the George Rossell posted by Ben is your ancestor. He originally served with the Royal Field Artillery and then transferred to the Shropshire Light Infantry - not all Salford men joined the Salford Pals (Lancashire Fusilier, City Battalions) many served with other regiments.

George disembarked in France on the 4th August 1915 and was killed the following month. He was entitled to the 1915 Star, and the Victory and British War medals. He is remembered on the St Clements, Ordsall, memorial.

[shred]

[gr8gr8granddaughter]

Thank you. There seem to be a lot of george Rossells... so does this mean he is not on the ypres memorial ie is that a different george Rossell or has he been remembered on several?

[gr8gr8granddaughter]

Hi and thank you again. A couple of questions and sorry for my ignorance before I begin!
The number 74980, is this my great grandfathers number or is it a number for the royal field artillery? And where do you find this very useful information is it from ww1 service records?
Is St Clements a Catholic church? Possibly somewhere where he might have got married and where my greatgrandmother may be remembered?It is interesting to learn that she died in June just before he went away and very sad for my grandpa.
Thank you again for this information my uncle will be over the moon.

[shred]

Aug 23, 2014 19:58:49 GMT gr8gr8granddaughter said:

Thank you. There seem to be a lot of george Rossells... so does this mean he is not on the ypres memorial ie is that a different george Rossell or has he been remembered on several?

George's name is on the Ypres Gate Memorial which is maintained by the CWGC:
ROSSELL, GEORGE
Rank:PrivateService No:20085
Date of Death:25/09/1915
Regiment/Service:King's Shropshire Light Infantry 5th Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 47 and 49.
Memorial:YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

link

As stated he is also remembered in Salford on the St Clement's, Ordsall, memorial, probably because he, or a family member, lived in the parish. A lot of churches would accept names for remembrance regardless of denomination.

[shred]

Aug 23, 2014 21:04:04 GMT gr8gr8granddaughter said:

Hi and thank you again. A couple of questions and sorry for my ignorance before I begin!
The number 74980, is this my great grandfathers number or is it a number for the royal field artillery? And where do you find this very useful information is it from ww1 service records?
Is St Clements a Catholic church? Possibly somewhere where he might have got married and where my greatgrandmother may be remembered?It is interesting to learn that she died in June just before he went away and very sad for my grandpa.
Thank you again for this information my uncle will be over the moon.

The number 74980 would have been George's number whilst he was with the RFA. This number may have been re-issued to another man after George was transferred. The information is given in Ben's post at the top of this thread, the information is from the database "Soldiers Died in the Great War" which is available to search on Ancestry and Find my Past.

St Clement's is not a Catholic church. As previously stated lots of churches would list men from their parish regardless of denomination.

[shred]

I think that I may have found your great grandfather's marriage.

I found the birth registration of a George J Rossell born in Salford in 1912:
First name(s) GEORGE G J
Last name ROSSELL
Birth year 1912
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name SOUTHCOMBE
District SALFORD
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume
Page 303

Using "Southcombe" to search for marriages in Salford returned no results, so I tried "Southcomb":
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1907
Mary B SOUTHCOMB married George RUSSELL at Salford Register Office - Reference No:- SAL/99/119

It may be worth ordering the 1912 birth certificate and the 1907 wedding certificate.

[shred]

There is also one other birth for a Rossell in Salford with the mother's maiden name given as Southcomb:

Name: Mary J Rossell
Mother's Maiden Name: Southcomb
Registration Year: 1915
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Salford
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume:
Page: 260

[shred]

Digging further I have found some more records which may prove that your great grandfather's name was more than likely "Russell" and he changed it to "Rossell" so that he could join the Army to "do his bit" in the war. If you are comfortable I could post snippets on the forum, if not I would be happy to email you.

[gr8gr8granddaughter]

Go for it. This is all great news, very interesting and informative. Was his dob 1887? I have looked at some censuses and this george Rossell was in west derby Lancashire just before he went to war in 1911.
With regards to my greatgrandmother, on the back of her photo it said she died in june 1915. I know Mary was his half sister. And now some of the writing on the back makes sense.
With regards to the RFA rank number:
So he was also gunner George Rossell as well.
And thank you again re his name on memorials. I have been to Ypres gate and will look up where thid church id. Thank you.

[gr8gr8granddaughter]

Southcomb is written on the back of her photo as is Tipperary.

[shred]

Sorry for the late reply a close member of our family passed away on Bank Holiday Monday.

The following George Russell stated he was 19 in 1903 so would give a date of birth of approximately 1884.


Attestation form for George Russell to join the Royal Scots Fusiliers.




Date of attestaion is 31st October 1903.




Service in the East Indies till 1907 and then to the reserve.




Marriage to Mary Badolia Southcomb in 1907.




Record give his brothers name and address.




A conviction for theft in 1914 resulting in his discharge and lose of his pension.



I think that George may have used the surname "Rossell" so that he could re-enlist without letting the authorities know about his conviction.

There are a few inaccuracies that would make me want to dig further:
George gives his religion as C of E.
We already know that a son had been born in 1912 and was registered as "Rossell", was this a error by the registrar which subsequently gave George the idea to re-attest as "Rossell" after his conviction?

For me the fact that the record shows George's marriage is the clincher, but do please double check and try to add to/verify the above information before accepting that this is your George.